In honor of Atlus' latest SPOTLIGHT we now have the backstabbing, lyin' and cheatin', hiding in the shadows ready to pounce, light on his feet...the Rogue.

This is all based on Atlus' latest SPOTLIGHT so I'll leave out my usual stat recommendations and instead refer to his.

>>For the Rogue, you'll want to first start pumping up his/her Strength
and Dexterity. Pump 3 points each on every level up into these
skills. Why Strength and Dexterity?

Well, Strength obviously helps with dealing more damage and
penetrating the enemy's armor/skin more often. Ideally you'll want
your Rogue on the front lines with your other fighter-types so you
can take advantage of his/her awesome Backstab ability. Like a
Fighter in Berzerk mode, a Rogue can dish out double-damage with
any melee weapon he/she is able to use. The higher your Strength,
the more damage you can do. Couple that with the double-damage
Backstab and you have the only character in Wizardry 8 that can
stand toe-to-toe with a Fighter in the damage department.

Dexterity should be built up because it not only helps you to hit
more often in combat, but it gives extra attacks and helps with
Pickpocketing and Locks and Traps. Also, once you hit 100
Dexterity, you'll unlock the Reflextion Personal Skill, which allows
you to pump points into it and increase your Armor Class. This is
great because it stacks with the Rogue's Armor Class bonuses from
the Stealth Skill. The fact that Rogues can only use lightweight
armor (leather armors mostly), this Attribute becomes pretty
important for keeping him/her alive.

Once those 2 skills are maxed out, you'll want to work on Speed
and Senses. Speed for the extra Initiative and Attacks, and Senses
for the extra Initiative and Combat Bonuses.

Vitality--in all honesty--isn't really needed for a Rogue. With his/her
Stealth Skill, coupled with the Reflextion Skill, your Rogue won't be
getting hit very often. Investing points into this skill is--in my
opinion--a complete waste of time. Your points are better spent on
Attributes that will make your Rogue a better combatant. <<

That means we have...

Stats in order of importance: DEX, STR, SPD, SEN, VIT

Stats needed for Rogue: DEX 55 SPD 50 SEN 50

Human 40 14/12
Elf 40 14/12
Dwarf 10 4/2
Gnome 35 12/11
Hobbit 60 20
Faerie 50 17/16
Lizard 25 9/7
Dracon 25 9/7
Felpurr 55 19/17
Rawulf 35 12/11
Mook 25 9/7

Stats before bonus points:

DEX STR SPD SEN VIT
Human 55 45 50 50 45
Elf 55 35 50 50 35
Dwarf 55 55 50 50 60
Gnome 55 35 50 50 50
Hobbit 55 40 50 50 45
Faerie 55 25 60 50 30
Lizard 55 60 50 50 70
Dracon 55 55 50 50 60
Felpurr 55 40 60 50 35
Rawulf 55 40 50 50 50
Mook 55 50 50 55 50

Stats after bonus points:

DEX STR SPD SEN VIT
Human 69 59 62 50 45
Elf 69 49 62 50 35
Dwarf 59 59 52 50 60
Gnome 67 47 61 50 50
Hobbit 75 60 70 50 45
Faerie 72 42 76 50 30
Lizard 64 69 57 50 70
Dracon 64 64 57 50 60
Felpurr 74 59 77 50 35
Rawulf 67 52 61 50 50
Mook 64 59 57 55 50

Level at which stat would max out:

DEX STR SPD SEN VIT
Human 12 15 24 32 43
Elf 12 18 24 35 46
Dwarf 15 15 31 32 44
Gnome 12 19 25 36 42
Hobbit 10 15 20 31 38
Faerie 11 21 19 37 42
Lizard 13 12 28 29 38
Dracon 13 13 28 30 41
Felpurr 10 15 18 32 39
Rawulf 12 17 25 34 42
Mook 13 15 28 30 44

All stats: Hobbit, Lizardman, Felpurr, Dracon, Gnome, Faerie, Rawulf, Human, Dwarf, Mook, Elf.

All except VIT: Lizardman, Dracon, Mook, Hobbit, Human, Dwarf, Felpurr, Rawulf, Elf, Gnome, Faerie.

All except VIT and SEN: Felpurr, Faerie, Hobbit, Human, Elf, Gnome, Rawulf, Lizardman, Dracon, Mook, Dwarf.

All starting stats plus bonus points (DEX+STR+SPD+SEN+VIT+Bonus points):
Hobbit 300, Felpurr 290, Lizardman 275, Human 265, Faerie 260, Dracon 260, Rawulf 255, Gnome 250, Mook 250, Elf 240, Dwarf 230.

Let's see...the Hobbit takes the Gold twice, Bronze once, and doesn't show in the last (Fourth). He's not getting his usually all Gold Medals like usual. With all stats considered we have of course, the nimble little Hobbit.

Without VIT we have the Lizardman first, followed by the Dracon and Mook. I really found this baffling since Lizardmans have such high VIT ::shrugs::

Sticking with just STR, SPD and DEX we have the Felpurr first followed by the tiny Faerie then again the Hobbit.

If you want all stats maxed out as soon as possible the Hobbit is your fury-footed friend. Then again without VIT considered the Lizardman would make a great Rogue and so would the Dracon especially with his breath attack. Then again if you just want to get your DEX and SPD maxed as soon as possible then the catlike Felpurr is your choice.

All in all...I'm kinda torn here. The Lizardman maxes out all stats except VIT first, and starts with the most STR. On the other hand the Hobbit starts with slightly less STR but more DEX and SPD, while the Felpurr starts with less STR still but has incredible starting SPD. I'd have to stick with the Hobbit; he starts with the most points, maxes out all stats first, is tied with the Felpurr with maxing out DEX and STR and is only two levels behind in maxing out SPD, however, they start with 10 more VIT and that does come in handy.

vesselle

great analysis

i have a question for you. do you see any importance allowing the race resistances figure into your final decision? (when it's a close decision, i mean)

sometimes that's the only thing that sways me. so i guess what i am curious about is, are they that important? obviously, it's nice going into the monastery with some beginning resists, because you don't really have anything else

but i chose a felpurr for my rogue because her numbers put her in 2nd place, and then she had those resists.

thanks

V***V

Bochser

>>i have a question for you. do you see any importance allowing the race resistances figure into your final decision? (when it's a close decision, i mean) <<

Y'know what, I usually do, I completely forgot this time =(

Well, of the top three...the Felpurr is nice with their +10 Mental resistance. To tell you the truth I only find Mental resistance important, eventually you'll get such high resits it's crazy, but you can never have enough mental resistance!
I simply hate it when my guys turncoat or go crazy.

The other resistances are, like you said, mainly good for the beginning of the game, but that's not a bad thing either

XxBotDxX

But if you remember in his spotlight he said for felpurs that you need to max Speed at level 8 and dex at level 10 and then work on strength and either vit or senses. That would make it max like this for Felpur
Spd 8, Dex 10, Str 22, Sense 27, vit 40
Now can you say anyone else can beat that? This mean you max the important stats immediately and while you are waiting for the vit to max you are also maxing intelligence which is used in a few combat skills. JUst thought you would like to know as some races may need adjustment to get max efficiency.

Bochser

>>But if you remember in his spotlight he said for felpurs that you need to max Speed at level 8 and dex at level 10 and then work on strength and either vit or senses. That would make it max like this for Felpur
Spd 8, Dex 10, Str 22, Sense 27, vit 40
Now can you say anyone else can beat that? This mean you max the important stats immediately and while you are waiting for the vit to max you are also maxing intelligence which is used in a few combat skills. JUst thought you would like to know as some races may need adjustment to get max efficiency. <<

Yeesh! It takes me about 45-60 minutes to do it like this, it'd take me forever to do it race by race =(!

It would actually look a little something like this:

Felpurr 55 19/17

DEX STR SPD SEN VIT
Felpurr 55 40 60 50 35

Stat Level at which stat would max out
SPD 79 8
DEX 74 10
STR 57 23
SEN 50 27
VIT 35 44

Actually it's worse like this, rather than having SPD, DEX and STR all maxed out by level 18, you'd now have to wait until 23. And even in the long run you'd max out everything by level 44 instead of 39.

XxBotDxX

Well I ask you what level did you finish the game? I have not finished myself so would it even be feasible to max vit by the end of the game with any character? OH and thank you for the correction.

Bochser

>>Well I ask you what level did you finish the game? I have not finished myself so would it even be feasible to max vit by the end of the game with any character?<<

I finished at about level 26 or so. It would be feasible to max out VIT since the game goes up to level 50, but that's only if you have a lot of time to kill

That's another reason I suggested the Hobbit, he starts with 10 more VIT.

>>OH and thank you for the correction. <<

Hmm...sounds like you took that a little too personal. I didn't mean anything by correcting you, I was just trying to prove my point.

If I'm taking this all wrong then I apologize.

XxBotDxX

No I am sincerely thanking you for the correction. I cant stand it when people dont tell me what I am doing wrong. I always make it point to tell people their mistakes so they dont go on believing they are have everything correct. Yes that 10 vit may help but Hobbits I dont particularly like as they are midgets and fat. No offense to you hobbit lovers out there, just I they dont make good heroes in my mind.

Riftmaker

Boch, you're missing something.

Your analysis makes for a great fighting Rogue, however, if you're taking a rogue without any other char for locks and chests, you're going to need intelligence.

As such, Intelligence should be there ahead of Senses. STR, DEX, and SPD are more important to a point. SPD improves AC as well as initiative and attacks, DEX because it's a basis stat for all of the Rogue's special skills, and STR for more damage and carrying capacity.

I believe Intelligence should be ahead of Senses in the case that you have a Rogue, and no Bard, Gadget, or Ninja.

As such, and because I don't have the manual at work with me, could you do another analysis with this order? (The Lizard will fall from this, I'm sure).

Just thought I'd point that out.

XxBotDxX

Well If you dont have a bard, ninja, or gadgeteer then what do you have? I dont think you will really need much intelligence and that just pumping the skill will be enough. I havent been to the end of the game so I cant say if a lock trap skill of 100 is enough or if you need intelligence to open most things. Remember you are maxing Dexterity which is also a requisite skill.

Krag_Gorn

Riftmaker: What if one had a mage or some other magic support which used Knock Knock, would a non- INT-pumping (!) rogue be sufficient?

Riftmaker

For locks, sure.

Actually, if you had Knock Knock for the locks, and Divine Trap for the traps, a non-INT Rogue would probably work fine.

If you don't have both of these however, you're going to be wanting your Rogue to have some Intelligence.

XxBotDxX

Yes but was the chance you have no ninja, bard, gadgeteet, or spellcaster that can cast knock-knock and divine trap? And even then I think the rogue will suffice as they do get a bonus.

Riftmaker

It will suffice, but I doubt they will be able to get past the *insane* locks (IE. 8 tumblers).

Then again, you can always use Knock Picks for those.

Krag_Gorn

"Actually, if you had Knock Knock for the locks, and Divine Trap for the traps, a non-INT Rogue would probably work fine"

Given those spells, why would one need a rogue at all?

However, you trigger a realisation for me, opening a locked chest is a two-step process: unlock it and un-trap it.

I know the skill is locks/traps but since they're bracketed together in the rogue I hadn't appreciate till now that Knock Knock only deals with the lock aspect. Hmmm, so without a rogue at all one needs a mage and priest? Assuming they each levelled much the same would a mage/priest combo mean one could live without a rogue at all?

Bochser

>>Boch, you're missing something.

Your analysis makes for a great fighting Rogue, however, if you're taking a rogue without any other char for locks and chests, you're going to need intelligence. <<

Hey now, this is all based on Atlus SPOTLIGHT Rogue, so blame HIM! hehe Just kidding Atlus

Seriously though I did base it on his SPOTLIGHT, but I also must agree with him. I think the Rogue is more of a fighter type anyways. I personally always think a Bard should be in a party so they pick up Pickpocketing/lockpicking and such

The Rogue has a lot of skills he needs just to be a good fighter, imagine them thieving skills too?

Riftmaker

Gorn:

You need someone to disarm the traps, even after Divine Trap is cast. All Divine Trap does is increase the Lock/Traps skill of someone. Thus you still need to have a Rogue/Bard/Ninja/Gadget to disarm the trap.

Boch:

Personally, I hate bards. I have always hated bards. I always will hate bards. Maybe it's the fact that their instruments provide such a great amount of income I'm not exactly willing to give it up (and DON'T you start about the PPing for the income again). I'm just not a big fan of bards.

So nyah :P

XxBotDxX

Get a bard its like having a spellcasting rogue they are just awesome and I dont even have any good instruments.